[00:00:00] Rob: This is The Balanced Leader Podcast, the podcast that helps leaders elevate their wellbeing and create healthier workplaces. My name is Rob Hills and I’m your leadership and wellbeing coach. In today’s episode of The Balanced Leader Podcast, I sat down with Lachlan Rowston, the co owner of The Lockeroom Gym, a podcast host, and a personal trainer.

[00:00:28] This episode is all about how leaders can integrate regular exercise and healthy habits into their busy lifestyle. We covered a lot of ground, including the benefits of fitness for leaders in high pressure roles, strategies for maintaining consistent exercise routines despite those demanding schedules and advice on starting and sustaining a fitness journey.

[00:00:49] A couple of things to note before you listen to this podcast, Lachlan was hard at work on the day of our interview. So you will hear some gym noises in the background that you might not normally hear on one of our episodes. And there are a couple of swear words in there as well, so you may not want to listen to this episode while the kids are in earshot.

[00:01:08] That being said. Let’s dive into today’s episode with Lachlan Rowston.

[00:01:19] Welcome Lachy to The Balance Leader Podcast. Thanks so much for joining us today.

[00:01:23] Lachlan: No worries, Rob. Good to be on.

[00:01:25] Rob: Uh, Lachy why don’t you start by telling us a little bit about yourself and what it is you do?

[00:01:30] Lachlan: Sure. Yeah. So, um, you know, I’m, I would say if people would say, you know, what do you do? I would say I’m a fitness entrepreneur, uh, even though I don’t like the word entrepreneur, um, that is, I think what most identify with most because.

[00:01:46] I’m, uh, less good at running the day to day business and I’m much better at starting businesses and being creative and I have to like tame that part of myself that always wants to come up with new things and exciting things and try and stay focused on the things that are working. And so. Uh, 10 years ago I opened my first gym, uh, at 21.

[00:02:04] Uh, it was a CrossFit gym. Uh, we bought into it an existing, uh, brand, three business partners bought in with, uh, two business partners, five business partners in one gym, doesn’t work. So, um, slowly dissolved that, that setup over, over the course of 12 months. Uh, and then after that 12 months opened, uh, under the same brand, two more gyms.

[00:02:24] So for about seven years, we ran three locations. Um, group fitness gyms. They started as CrossFit gyms. They ended up becoming more kind of, uh, what we see today, which is a bit of a mix between CrossFit and F45. So kind of hybrid strength and conditioning model. Um, so I did that for seven years, sold that brand in, uh, 2019 2020 started the sale in 2019, sold it in 2020 and that kind of paved the runway for what I’m doing now, which is locker room, which is a private gym for business executives.

[00:02:56] Uh, we started our first location, open the doors March 2021. After a year in lockdown, um, just sitting on our hands and then we, uh, we opened the second location of September last year. So that’d be 2023. Um, and yeah, it’s going really well so far. Uh, so that was kind of my, as most of my day to day and then my sort of, uh, I wouldn’t call it my side hustle, but the business that we did on the side was the Mind Muscle Project podcast, which, uh, clocked 10 years this year.

[00:03:26] Um, and we actually dissolved, well, we put an indefinite hold on it this year, um, after 10 years. So yeah, that was an incredible journey. Um, you know, we, we did four overseas tours, which was like, you know, interviewing people all over the world face to face. Um,

[00:03:40] Rob: wow.

[00:03:40] Lachlan: Yeah. Three, three trips in America, one in Dubai.

[00:03:43] We had loads of domestic travel. You know, I got to meet all my fitness industry heroes.

[00:03:47] Rob: Yeah.

[00:03:48] Lachlan: I got, yeah, the privilege to get invited to all sorts of networking events and parties and meet all these brands. And, you know, I just kind of lived the podcast dream, uh, which was cool. Um, yeah. And, and met, you know, loads of people that I, one of them that I consider my closest friend today.

[00:04:03] I first met him on my podcast after inviting him on and yeah, I’ve met loads of friends through it. So, um, I feel very blessed that I was able to go on that journey.

[00:04:12] Rob: That’s amazing. So 10 years of podcasting, what’s the name of the podcast? The Mind Muscle Project. Project. And what’s, it’s more tailored for business owners of gyms, isn’t it?

[00:04:21] Lachlan: That’s kind of where it finished up. Um, the journey it took in the beginning, we were pretty much the voice of CrossFit. So like we really helped grow the sport. Um, we didn’t, we never worked for CrossFit or had any affiliation with them, but We had on all their top athletes, you know, the guys that won the CrossFit Games and the guys that stood on the podium at the CrossFit Games and basically the who’s who in that sport.

[00:04:40] And that, so we spoke very much to like a general kind of fitness audience in the beginning. And then over time as our skills sharpened as business owners and gym owners, we actually then started offering more advice to, because I mean, a big part of our audience were gym owners already and personal trainers.

[00:04:57] And then when we started sharing some of our business knowledge, they really liked that side of it. We ended up doing the peak. We’re doing four shows a week. Uh, and then like, yeah, one of those shows is business focused, you know, other than was sort of industry, current events, focus interviews. So it was all kinds of stuff.

[00:05:14] But then I think where we really ended up at the end, sort of the last year and a half, two years was just like primarily focused on the business side of the fitness industry. Just because that’s where our interests lie. We kind of gave up the athlete. Um, you know, when we started it, we were primarily focused on being athletes and then we shifted into, you know, You know, becoming more business owners, uh, in the last sort of four or five years.

[00:05:36] And so that’s kind of where the content is very hard to talk about health and fitness and working out and eating enough protein and going to bed on time for 10 years. Eventually your, your interests change. Um, and so we just kind of followed our interests and that really, that helped the show. And then, yeah, we just, Decided this year, the brand was, uh, locker room was, was growing really fast and it needed all of that, all of our attention.

[00:05:57] And so, uh, yeah, we wrapped up the podcast. It was no longer kind of serving us. We, you know, ticked every box we wanted to tick. Um, and yeah, there’s a lot of competition now in podcasting. So yeah, it was just, it was just better. We spent our time.

[00:06:12] Rob: And for those who are listening, um, and who can’t see a screen, you’re actually in the gym at the moment, aren’t you?

[00:06:17] You’re in Lockeroom Gym.

[00:06:18] Lachlan: Yep. Yep. Yep. In my office.

[00:06:21] Rob: Yep. And so you showed me before, um, before we got started, you know, just a bit of a look around the gym. Uh, there’s actually people working out. I can hear a little bit of music in the background. You are, this is as authentic as look at that. Look at that.

[00:06:31] Yep. There’s people going on and everyone doing their thing. Great.

[00:06:35] Lachlan: Yeah, it’s a gym. It’s not a, not a green screen.

[00:06:38] Rob: Exactly. Well, I did ask you at the start of like, is that a moving green screen or what? Um, but yeah, so like, have you always been a regular gym goer or is this something that you found later in life?

[00:06:49] Lachlan: Um, I mean, it depends where you pick a starting point and it’s like later in life, but yeah, I first started looking away till I was 16. So I probably lived a decent chunk of my life with no interest in the gym whatsoever. Um,

[00:07:03] Rob: yeah.

[00:07:03] Lachlan: Yeah, I was, I was very into sport. So like ever since, you

[00:07:06] Rob: know,

[00:07:07] Lachlan: I’ve seen the old VHS tapes that my dad keeps around with me and I’ve got hockey sticks and I’ve got rollerblades and basketballs and football, everything.

[00:07:14] Um, my dad, his business that he ran with his dad was a wholesale sporting goods company. So they imported, uh, American sporting goods. So, you know, I grew up with skateboards, um, ice hockey sticks, rollerblades, you know, aFL

[00:07:29] balls, every sport you could imagine. Right. Um, surfboards. So yeah, just I’ve been physically active was always a huge part of my life and then it reached a point.

[00:07:38] Where I became self conscious enough about how I looked, um, that I was like, I should probably lift some weights to feel better about myself. And that, that kind of happened around 16.

[00:07:47] Rob: Yeah. Right. Cool. So I imagine that most of my audience are either fairly regular gym goers or they’re people who probably aren’t quite there yet.

[00:07:56] Um, but they aspire to a healthier lifestyle. So for those who perhaps aren’t regulars yet, can you tell us what are the key benefits of regular exercise and going to the gym, particularly for leaders and particularly for those who work in high pressure roles?

[00:08:11] Lachlan: Yeah, it’s a great question. I mean, this is like our bread and butter at Locker Room, right?

[00:08:14] We work primarily with CEOs, C suites, partners, directors, founders, entrepreneurs, like that’s pretty much 95 percent of our clientele. And I mean, I can obviously. There’s a lot of science behind why exercise is good for your brain and your heart and your health and obviously longevity. And I think everyone, everyone knows that.

[00:08:34] Like I’m not telling the researchers is mainstream now. Right. But I can tell you, you know, the subjective experience of what our clients tell us. The first thing they say is that they’re actually more productive, you know, and that’s, that’s a big one. They thought, well, if I have to give up two to three hours of my week for the gym, I’m going to be less productive.

[00:08:53] The truth is because they’re tired because they’re sick, because they’re not functioning optimally, they’re not as healthy as they can be their actual, you know, if you measure work done per unit of time is actually lower than when they’re healthier, because when they’re healthier, they can think clearer, they can make faster decisions.

[00:09:12] They sleep better, they’re in a better mood, so they pick less fights with their team, they can communicate more easily, you know, when you’re sleep deprived, you’re worse at maths, like we’ve done the research, so they do maths faster, so every decision becomes faster, and so the business progresses better, and they progress in their role better, so productivity is definitely a big one, I mean, like, kind of the subcategory of that is like, their mood is just significantly better, that’s probably the big lift they see, they see a lift in their energy, and that really improves them.

[00:09:40] Um, their state of mind and as a leader, obviously your, your mental health and you’re under a lot of pressure. There’s a lot of responsibilities. And so a negative mindset or a low mood or low energy can make everything feel harder than it needs to be. Um, and so having more energy means like you’re in a better mood, which means everything’s feels a little bit easier.

[00:09:58] Everything’s a little bit lighter. So for people that especially aren’t really doing any sort of strenuous training is there’s no stress relief. And when there’s no stress relief. They often turn to things, uh, or non healthy stress relievers like alcohol. That would be like a really big one. Uh, and there, there is really good research to show that those things do relieve stress.

[00:10:18] They also make you very unhealthy. Um, yeah, like having a drink, having a few drinks, eating a bunch of chocolate, it does relieve stress. Like it’s, it’s true. You look at the neurochemical response from eating those foods, like you do get stress relief, but it’s not a good long term strategy for stress relief.

[00:10:33] Um, and so, yeah, this is, this is for many of them, it’s the outlet, um, you know, and again, like the research, the science is, is very clear. Like if you. strain the body. If you work hard, if you get into uncomfortable situations physically that are painful, you build up a lot of lactic acid in your body actually makes you more resilient so that you are able to take on because the body doesn’t really know.

[00:10:55] Stress. Uh, like where the stress is coming from, doesn’t know if stress is coming from a weights or coming from boxing or coming from work or coming from family stuff. It just sees it as stress, you know, it releases the same chemicals, releases the same hormones. It has the same effect, but giving your body doses of controlled stress, which is exercise, uh, regularly helps it condition it so that when you do take on other stresses, Yeah, work stress, emotional stress, relationship stress.

[00:11:22] You can handle it more easily. Yeah, I guess to summarize like productivity, uh, the stress relief and mood, like energy levels is like the big ones.

[00:11:31] Rob: Yeah, great. You mentioned there, um, working with busy leaders. How do you suggest they, Effectively integrate their fitness workouts into what’s probably already a packed schedule.

[00:11:43] So what do you suggest for them to make that work?

[00:11:46] Lachlan: Yeah, I think there’s two parts to it. I think the first part is they have to want to fit it in. I mean, that’s the key is like, um, I mean, I’ve been doing this for a long time in selling gym memberships for 10 years and You can’t make anyone do anything.

[00:12:00] They have to want to do it themselves. Um, and so it’s the classic, like everyone needs to work out, but how many people actually want to do it? Like very few. And so I find it often takes a massive low point in their life in order for them to change. That could be a health diagnostic. Uh, it could be like a friend passing away from a preventable disease.

[00:12:21] It could be, um, you know, a common one we get is people, their kids reach somewhere between 8 to 12 years old and then all of a sudden they can’t keep up with their kids. They’re like, oh shit, like, I actually can’t run around the field with them. I can’t kick the ball with them. I can’t chase them anymore.

[00:12:36] I can’t pick them up. Um, they’re just all worn out all the time. Um, that’s a pretty, that’s a pretty big one aging parents, like seeing really debilitated parents that like never worked out, never looked after their health and they’re like, Oh shit, I don’t want to end up like that. So those are, those are the most common ones.

[00:12:52] There are more, but those are the most common ones. We hear that motivate people to do it. Yeah, I’m ready to make a change once, once they’re ready to make a change. Honestly, it’s. It is a little bit easier to, um, kind of figure out how it works and it’s, it’s never a perfect formula. I mean, the selfless plug locker room really helped with this particular type of, um, client because they are so busy.

[00:13:13] Traditional personal training doesn’t work because it’s restricted to one coach’s schedule. So they might go, I want to do three sessions a week, and that coach goes, well, if they’re any good as well, they’ve got a full book of clients. I can fit you in on a Wednesday at four p. m. Friday at six a. m. And then a Saturday at midday.

[00:13:30] They’re like, well, only one of those times work for me. And so they kind of struggle to fit the other times in. It’s a bit rigid. They can’t move it around. Whereas we built like an operational system that’s basically pt on demand. They can book pts whenever they want. That kind of fits their schedule. But putting that part aside, I think just it’s.

[00:13:46] Integrating that into their life. Our general advice is like, Hey, you need to treat this like a, like a work appointment it needs to anyone that can affect your diary needs to know that this is now a new thing in your diary that you do not book over. Uh, and then once they treat it like a work appointment, um, you get kind of that through that first one to two months and they build the habit, they see some results, they get some momentum from there.

[00:14:07] It’s like, it’s pretty easy to keep them, um, or it’s pretty easy for them to slowly make those, those changes. And, and then, you know, it’s, it’s good, it’s important for them to know not to rush these things, right? Like you’ve got till the end of your life, most people, that’s the next, 30, 40 years, you know, to kind of find something that works here.

[00:14:25] And so really it’s about a sustainable approach. Like yes, some short term results are good because you get buy in. Ultimately, once we’re through that, it’s like, okay, how do we sustain this? And I think that that’s the massive issue with my industry. Not even just for executives is that people are choosing training programs that are unsustainable.

[00:14:44] Um, and therefore it just takes the smallest thing to derail them and they just go, Oh, it’s too hard. I can’t do it. You know, one injury, I’ll just give up everything. Yeah. It’s like helping people navigate the formula that’s going to work best for them, which is yeah. Sustainability over the long term.

[00:15:00] Rob: So for those new to exercise, the first step is the motivation to change.

[00:15:05] So once they’ve got the motivation to change, they realize they want to do something. Step two is to treat it like a work appointment. Let’s get a little bit tactical. What do you recommend they do? Is it a mix of, um, cardio and weights? Uh, or do you get them to start really small? I mean, starting small, you’ve sort of already answered that already.

[00:15:24] What’s the best approach?

[00:15:25] Lachlan: Yeah, awesome. Another great question. So, um, basically here’s, here’s, here’s something you definitely shouldn’t do. If you’re in your forties, if you’re in your fifties and forties and older, and you’re just starting exercise, even late thirties, Don’t go to a gym where everyone’s in their twenties, because very likely that gym, the programming that’s designed for that gym, or a trainer that’s working primarily with young people, it’s not going to be appropriate for you.

[00:15:48] It’s going to be too difficult. Like when you’re 20, I think someone said it once is like, you can eat Tupperware. You know, like you’re so resilient that like you can kind of do anything and it all works. You know, and I think that, um, you know, everyone wants to be young and feel young again. So they go, okay, I’m a little bit older, but yeah, I’ll go to that gym with all the hot people and be fit.

[00:16:05] Cause you know, that’s what I want to do. Bad decision. That’s like a fast track to injuries, burnout, overtraining, just totally inappropriate. And I think a lot of people, at least I’ve spoken to as well, they’ve either had that experience where they’ve gone to a gym where it’s like, Oh wow, this is just the wrong exercise program for me.

[00:16:22] Um, or they’ve had a friend or someone else do it and be like, Oh, that was horrible. And they’re like, Oh yeah, I don’t want anything to do with that. I think, yeah, as you, when you’re in your 40s, if you’re carrying any sort of chronic pain or injuries or you’re very inexperienced, you do need a personal, you do need a coach, you need to work one on one with someone.

[00:16:36] It doesn’t mean you have to, I know personal training is expensive, um, but it doesn’t mean you have to work with a PT forever, but you should for at least 6 months just so you can learn how to do everything correctly. Yep. Because, You know, tweaking your back at 45 is a very different road to recovery than tweaking it back at 21, 21.

[00:16:52] It’s like you can probably train the next day. Just like have to move around it at 45. It’s like, I don’t know if I’m going to make it to the end of the year. You know, it’s like, it’s a very different prospect. So injury, like the consequences of injury is a lot higher. Uh, when you’re older, so that’s why learning things and doing it correctly under the guidance of a coach is like more important.

[00:17:09] Uh, and then to answer your question more directly, the composition of those, um, those programs should be primarily focused on weight training. Uh, the reason is because as we age, we start to lose muscle mass. Um, and so you want to be doing weights to, to, we know that in older age, the most important health outcomes.

[00:17:28] Uh, that we look for that are indicators. The longevity is muscle mass, bone density, leg strength and grip strength. So it’s four things. So if you have really good grip strength, if you have really good leg strength, if you have a high, high amount of muscle mass for your age and you have high bone density outside of diseases that are out of your control, like cancer or whatever that strikes you down in terms of preventable lifestyle diseases and quality of life.

[00:17:50] These are the most important things. These will give you the longest, happiest, best life. They’ll keep your independence for as long as possible. Everyone knows people that are in their 60s, 70s that are no longer independent because they let these aspects of their life deteriorate. So, primarily weight.

[00:18:05] So, I’d say like if you’re doing three sessions, two of those sessions should be weight training. Um, and then you definitely doing a cardio. But yet I would say a third of your training should be cardiovascular training, and that should be a mix of high intensity. So like a really high heart rate, um, like lactic lactic acid, that’s that burning pain in your legs.

[00:18:23] Like there should be that, that should be. Yeah, maybe once a fortnight, that kind of training. And then the rest of the cardio training should be that long, slow distance, like a long walk or a hike or like a slow jog or something like that. It’s really good.

[00:18:34] Rob: And it’s great. You know, maybe 20 years ago, 30 years ago, uh, cardio was all that people focused on, particularly for those who didn’t know about going to the gym and lifting weights.

[00:18:43] And some people were thinking, well, I don’t want to lift weights cause I’m going to bulk up. And we know anyone who’s lifted weights for any period of time knows. Bulking does not happen easily like this is not a, this is not something you just go in the gym and go, Oh, look at me. I’m, I’m, I’m huge. Uh, so, so it’s great to see that we’re moving away and putting more focus on resistance training now, but as you said, in the, the lead up, particularly for people who are in their forties, fifties and sixties, this can lead to injuries if you’re not doing it correctly.

[00:19:12] How important is it for people to pick exercises that work for them? And also thinking about the next sort of 20 How important is it to work on exercises that are going to maintain that longevity and their ability to move around and lift things up as they get older and older?

[00:19:30] Lachlan: Yeah, I think there’s a little bit of a misconception on exercise selection.

[00:19:33] What I would say to that is that all exercises should be on the table to begin with, like every, every movement. Um, Where a really good coach and programmer comes in is they select the exercises that one you enjoy the most. I think there’s an element of not enjoying exercise that is like kind of unavoidable, making that the smallest percentage possible is ideal because that’s going to get by.

[00:19:55] And so doing exercise, they’re like, if someone says, Oh my God, I just hate doing bench press, probably a female client. Honestly, most guys wouldn’t say that. Um, then maybe just don’t do a lot of bench press, you know, like we’ll find another pressing movement, like a push up or a shoulder press or something that’s going to train that muscle group.

[00:20:11] So like enjoyment, I think is a really big one and something I think in my early part of my career, I just like really didn’t give enough. Credit to it was just like, I’m the expert, I know what’s best for you. Just do it and shut up. And that’s not a great formula. Like you want to give, and people need variety, right?

[00:20:26] Like we know we need novelty to stay engaged in things. So making sure that enjoyment’s a big factor. Uh, the second part would be like, you want balance in your program, right? You get the classic saying like beach weights or mirror muscles. Like people just try, you know, train what they can see in the mirror.

[00:20:41] Speaker 5: Yeah,

[00:20:41] Lachlan: it’s very important that you train all your muscle groups fairly evenly. So your back muscles, the muscles you can’t see your hamstrings, calves, glutes, um, upper back, lower back, all that stuff, your core, as well as the fun stuff, you know, the arms, the legs, all that sort of stuff. So you want to, you want a nice balance.

[00:20:58] Obviously, again, it’s where a good, a good coach comes in. And then the third piece is just doing it with the appropriate intensity. And so what that means in sort of our, our language is ensuring that within each set. So say you’re doing a set of 10, that set of 10 should be sufficiently difficult so that when you finish the set, you should have no more than 1 to 3 more reps in the tank.

[00:21:25] So if they finished a set of 10, and I asked how many more do you think you could have done? Obviously it’s the coach knowing what the real answer is based off how difficult it was. If they say, oh, maybe one or two more and that’s, that’s true, then perfect. Like you’ve hit the right sweet spot and I’ll explain why that’s important.

[00:21:42] But if they say, oh, maybe like another five, six, seven, eight, it wasn’t hard enough. And that is honestly where a lot of people train, they train, like they do just enough of a set that it’s like, Oh, that’s pretty hard, but if they could do 5 to 6 to 7 to 10 more, it’s not sufficient enough to actually create the response that you want, which is to build muscle mass, um, to get stronger, to strengthen the tendons and the ligaments.

[00:22:06] So you actually need to get that sweet spot of intensity, right? And again, that’s where a great coach comes in because it’s like, Hey, you can actually push harder here and I’m going to, I’m going to, you know, support you here and push you and prescribe the right weights. And yeah, everyone kind of gets caught in that middle zone, that 60 to 70 percent zone where it’s like, yeah, it’s hard, it’s good.

[00:22:24] But yeah, it worked in the beginning because I went from zero, like I had no base at all. And so I saw a little bit of progress, but then they kind of get stuck because they’re not pushing themselves. They lift the same weights every single time with the same reps, and it’s a little bit too easy. And it’s actually not enough of a stimulus to get the body to adapt and change.

[00:22:42] And yeah, so yeah, that’s, that’s, that’s the key. It’s like, yeah, exercise selection is important. The balance between all the different body parts and then the right intensities.

[00:22:50] Rob: What’s the best way? I imagine if we’re doing that progressive overload and we’re starting to lift more and more that we may be more prone to injury.

[00:22:59] So what’s the best way to prevent injury in that case? Is it, um, do you do a sort of a couple of sets of warmup? Do you do some static stretching? Is it more dynamic stretching? What’s the best way to begin?

[00:23:10] Lachlan: Rob, you got good questions. I really like, I really like your curiosity.

[00:23:14] Rob: Thanks mate. Yeah.

[00:23:15] Lachlan: Um, no, definitely the right question to ask.

[00:23:17] Yeah. So. You’re right. As you get stronger, like you don’t get, you get stronger in a linear fashion for the first two years and then it really starts to plateau. Uh, and that’s when it becomes like, that’s really where you need experts to help you because like, for example, where I’m at in weight training for 15 years, it’s pretty hard for me to make progress these days.

[00:23:36] Like it’s very incremental progress, you know, for example, a beginner, they might start at 40 kilos on a bench press. And they could finish up the year with good programming around 80. They could double the weight that they’re on. Now, I even go up by 2 percent in a year on a lift. That would be huge. So if I could say bench 140 kilos, you know, increasing that by five kilos would be like significant in a year.

[00:23:58] So it does really start to plateau. And that’s. That’s okay because once you start hitting those, those kind of upper echelons of strength, the risk to reward ratio starts to really favor, uh, become unfavorable, you know, to kind of get that little bit of incremental progress because the weights are so heavy now you do risk an injury.

[00:24:17] So there is a little bit of a point where it’s like, okay, is it actually worth going from a 200 to a 220 kilo deadlift? Why, like, why, why do we need to, you know, that’s what, that’s the question we ask. So a lot of our clients will, as we train them, you know, some of them have been with us for like three, four years now, they are very sufficiently strong in some areas.

[00:24:37] And it’s like, cool, let’s just do like different variations here to keep it interesting or whatever, but we don’t need to get that much stronger because now that risks to reward ratio is not really there anymore. We’ve kind of got most of the benefits that muscle is like as strong as it needs to be.

[00:24:51] It’s, you know, uh, and depending on what your goals are, it’s as big as it needs to be. Yeah. Doing anything more here is just really for our ego. Um, and it does risk injury. And for some people, look, that’s. To stay engaged in the program and to stay excited for training, it’s worth chasing those extra 2, 3, 4, 5 kilos a year.

[00:25:07] And so we do it as long as they just understand the risk. So yeah, there is a point where, okay, it’s probably not worth getting any stronger here. It’s probably not worth it. It’s just good to maintain this. Let’s focus on some other areas now that aren’t as strong and let’s build up those areas.

[00:25:21] Rob: Yeah. And I think that’s great advice.

[00:25:22] And thank you for the compliment about the questions. I have all the questions because I’ve made all the mistakes. So, um, I spent a year on the sidelines after getting tennis elbow and thinking, Oh, I’ll just keep pushing through. And, uh, yeah, that didn’t work out so well. Um, so some really good points there, um, particularly for those who are thinking about trying to keep on pushing, you know, if it is the bench press, like you said, uh, males tend to want to do more and more bench pressing.

[00:25:47] Um, Um, but then perhaps it’s reaching a point and saying, okay, maybe I’ve maxed out here or, or for the time being, this is good enough and let’s focus on some other parts of the body that might benefit from building up.

[00:25:59] Speaker 5: Yes,

[00:25:59] Rob: that’s correct. Excellent. Also want to ask you about mobility. Uh, again, as we get older and I imagine you’re seeing some older clients in your gym, particularly with the type of leaders you’re working with.

[00:26:12] What type of clients you’re working with, where do we fit mobility into a gym workout routine? Is this something we’re doing on the gym floor when we come to the gym? Or is it something more that people should be focusing on at home at work in their own time?

[00:26:25] Lachlan: Yeah. Yeah. This is, uh, this is also extremely relevant for, uh, all the clients.

[00:26:29] And it’s a, it’s a question we get all the time. Uh, you know, should I be stretching? Should I not be stretching? Like should I go do yoga, et cetera, et cetera. Uh, so again, I was bringing back to the 1st principles and that’s essentially what I’ve been talking about 1st principles of exercise. The principle is when it comes to mobility.

[00:26:48] There’s 2 things to think about. There’s passive range and then there’s active range. So, uh, give me the example. Like most people touching, touching their toes, right? So, Yeah. A lot of people come to us, they’ve lost a lot of hamstring mobility because they’ve been sitting their whole life, your hamstring is in a shortened position when you’re sitting, and then, you know, compound that over years and years and years, decades sitting at a desk, it will make your hamstrings tighter, uh, and so eventually they can’t touch their toes.

[00:27:13] Uh, now they go, okay, I want to touch my toes. That’s a good goal. It’s a good indicator of mobility. Uh, but there’s two ways to go about it. There’s, there’s the passive range. So how far you can get without load. So that would be okay. If I stand up and I try and reach down as far as I can get, that’s my passive range.

[00:27:32] And then there’s your active range, which is like how much load, how strong am I at that end range? And what you don’t want to do is create a big disparity between your passive and your active range. The reason for that is because. If you start to load up a very passive range, you risk injury. Uh, and that is what’s really common with yogis.

[00:27:52] So people that get really good at yoga, yoga is primarily passive stretching. So it’s just long holds on unloaded. So just with your body weight and. The problem with that is that yes, you get really flexible, but you have no strength in those positions. So you might be at the bottom of a squat, but if I put some weight on your back, you can’t stand up with the squat.

[00:28:11] And if you try to, what you do is you’d risk an injury. You’d hurt your back. You might hurt your knee, you might hurt your hip. And so the best thing you can do is have your active and your passive range increase together over time. So that like in the ranges that I’ve got, I’m super strong. And the best example of this in the entire world, Is gymnast, right?

[00:28:31] They’re super flexible, but they’re super strong, right? They can go into a middle splits, but they can hold their middle splits off the ground with a barbell over their head, right? They’re strong in that position. Whereas you say, take a cheerleader, right? They can drop down to the floor and they’re in the splits, but they can’t hold the splits off the ground.

[00:28:49] With their feet on both chairs with weight on their back, you know, they’re weak in that position and they would just tear. They would just tear their adapters off. So what we all want to work to is increasing our active range as much as possible. It doesn’t mean we have to be super flexible. We just need enough range to get through the world, right?

[00:29:03] And for some of us, that’s just playing with our kids, playing a bit of sport on the weekends. Don’t have to be super flexible. Don’t have to be gymnasts. Level strength. Um, in those areas. And the best way to do that is just through weight training. Quite honestly, it’s a little bit of a warm up, right? So as you warm up, as you get the body ready, as you do a bit of that passive stretching, active stretching, when you’re warming up before a session, which we, you know, take clients to five minutes, 10 minutes max.

[00:29:27] They get a little bit more active range and then the movements that we’ll do in that session. So say we do some hip mobility and we warm up and it’s like, I am, my hips are feeling a little bit freer. Maybe they get 10 degrees more at the bottom of the squat, you know, and then these, the ankles and the hips, and then we go train squats.

[00:29:42] What you’re doing is you’re actually now using that extra 10 degrees under load. And you’re strengthening that area. And then you just keep compounding that over time, over time. And what you’ll find is that our clients, you know, they started that their squat could only maybe just above the hips. And by the end, you know, they’re almost at the bottom and that’s because.

[00:29:58] They’ve warmed up, they’ve given themselves a little bit more passive range, and then they’ve gone and they’ve done strength training to teach their brain to control that range and get strong in that range. So that’s, that’s the basic formula. Uh, any good coach, any good programmer kind of knows that that will help increase mobility over time.

[00:30:14] Rob: So are people still doing stuff at home at nighttime? If they’ve got extra time, do you still suggest they do extra things for mobility? Or is it just keep it in the gym? Um, don’t overdo it. You know, whatever you can fit in, in the time we have together is probably enough.

[00:30:30] Lachlan: So any passive range that you create, um, in a short timeframe is you’re generally going to lose it within 20, 20 minutes after you cool down.

[00:30:39] Doesn’t mean there’s no benefit of doing some stretching at home. Uh, it’s just that you won’t really increase your mobility over time, not to any effective degree, unless you’re doing some hardcore stretching routines like an hour, 30 minutes to an hour. But most people that will do stretching at home, I’d say the main benefit is it’s very good at, uh, what they call it.

[00:30:58] So your autonomic nervous system has a sympathetic and a parasympathetic state. So fight or flight, like when we’re in the gym. And then parasympathetic rest and digest where we’re like, relax, we’re recovering and stretching is a really good way to get into the parasympathetic state. So the people that maybe have a hard time sleeping or they have a hard time winding down, stretching is a really good way, a really good routine to help.

[00:31:19] induce that kind of relaxed state. You know, that’s, I think it’s things called Vinyasa yoga, where it’s just all about long stretches and breathing and that sort of stuff. That’s really good for relaxing the body. Really good for recovery, not great for long term increases in range of motion. So yeah, definitely some benefits, but probably not the benefits that everyone’s thinking.

[00:31:35] Rob: Yeah, right. So with leaders, what do you ask them to do in the workplace that sets them up for success in the gym? So we, you mentioned one thing before about we’re sitting too long and anyone who works longer than an eight hour day is going to probably, you know, in an office environment is probably going to be sitting for most of that.

[00:31:53] Um, do you ask that they get up every hour? Do you ask that they work from a standing desk? What’s the, some of the best advice you have for people there?

[00:32:01] Lachlan: Yeah, so we, we coach everyone on step count. So like activity levels is just another word for steps. So we track steps as best we can through their phone, through their wearables.

[00:32:13] And so anything that’s going to really just increase step count that might be walking meetings, that might be walking phone calls, that might be walking lunch break, that might be a dedicated walk each night or each morning somehow building more steps into their routine. Is basically the most important thing, because if you do, you know, a good weight training session, hit some cardio, but then you go and sit and you hit you clock 5000 steps for the day, you’re going to not be as healthy as you could be, which is, you know, a great example for most people is they lost lots of people didn’t go to the gym in covid in lockdowns.

[00:32:45] But they started walking every day because I wanted to get outside. So they added two hours of walking to their routine and they lost weight. So activity levels is a great way to manage weight and to lose weight. Yeah, one of the best things people can do is get outside, get their steps up. And then outside of that, uh, I think that would honestly be the main thing in terms of movement.

[00:33:04] But then there’s obviously all the nutritional stuff that we, we recommend as well. On top of that.

[00:33:08] Rob: Yeah, cool. And what advice do you have for leaders who travel frequently and sometimes struggle to maintain their fitness routine because they can’t get into a consistent, they can’t go to the same gym every day, but they’re, you know, on the road a couple of days every week.

[00:33:23] What advice do you have for those sorts of people?

[00:33:25] Lachlan: Yeah. This is definitely the hardest obstacle for us to overcome. Uh, and so the system that we use, which is not anything unique is we encourage people to always book if they’re staying at hotels, book hotels with a gym so that we can still use our, uh, our programming and our training app to get them, uh, for them to still stay on their fitness routine.

[00:33:44] We take the mindset of like, Hey, when you’re traveling, when you’re on the road, this is like more about maintenance. So it’s about, you don’t have to do the killer routine that you do with us in the gym. Let’s do an abbreviated short version of it, just so you keep your routine and not feel like you’re losing ground.

[00:33:57] It’s not a great time to make progress, but it’s a really good time to just maintain where we’re at. So that’s the first thing, is like, yeah, that mindset, just like focus on, Maintenance, right? Focus on keeping the routine. Um, if you don’t have access to the gym and people like traveling a lot on the road, I just say, like, get the step count up as best you can.

[00:34:16] Like if you can add steps into the morning walk, get up early, do some steps. If you’re like dragging around in the car all day, that’s fine. There’s going to be opportunities at night or when you finish for the day to just keep your step count up. That’s really the main thing. And then obviously, again, all the nutrition stuff, um, when it comes to flights, especially people that are crossing time zones regularly, uh, no alcohol on the flight.

[00:34:37] It’s like a lot of research that shows that alcohol’s effects on your blood chemistry in the air is significantly worse than it is, uh, when you’re not 40, 000 feet in the air. Um, so no alcohol during the flight and then no alcohol 24 hours after landing in a new time zone. That just cripples, that just really cripples the immune system and it just drags jet lag out significantly longer than it needs to.

[00:35:00] So that’s like our 80 20 when people are flying.

[00:35:03] Rob: In your experience, how do you help leaders, and anyone really, stay motivated and consistent with their fitness routines?

[00:35:12] Lachlan: Yeah, motivation. My, my perspective on motivation is that it’s an emotion and if you rely on emotions to keep you in a routine, you’re going to find that routine is very difficult to maintain, um, because it’s so fleeting, like anger is an emotion.

[00:35:27] Sadness is an emotion. Happiness is an emotion. They’re all emotions that are very hard to sustain. And so we look to encourage discipline, encourage motivation. Routine, you know, encourage, uh, daily activities that we do, things that we can tick off that are very practical, very tactical that ensure that we stay on track to our goals, which is a cool every day.

[00:35:46] You wake up, have half a liter of water every day. You in the morning, have your multivitamin, your green spatter, like, you know, track your steps every day, hit your step count, those sorts of things you do regardless of how you feel. If you wake up and you’ve got a shitty sleep, you feel like crap, you still drink your water and you still get your steps, right?

[00:36:04] So that, and then I guess having that discipline, um, you know, bleeds into everything. You know, it’s like I come to the gym regardless of how I feel. You know, I, I do a session and I get my steps regardless of how I feel. And so if we always wait to feel good or to want to train or to feel really motivated, you just end up not having success over the long term.

[00:36:25] So. Not to discount motivation, it can be very helpful in certain periods, especially when starting, but over time, we’re just telling clients, okay, this is just like a daily discipline, just like brushing your teeth, going to bed on time, drinking water, getting steps, these are just all habits that we just need to build.

[00:36:39] Rob: Yeah, and I’m the same. I have a morning routine and gym usually happens for me in the morning because that’s when my discipline is highest. I don’t argue with myself. I just get up and I do it. Uh, if I try and do it later in the day for me, and I imagine everyone’s different. If I try and do it later in the day, I’ve got a thousand and one excuses.

[00:36:58] And all of a sudden it’s like, Oh, I’ll just wait till tomorrow or I’m too busy with the kids or whatever. So, um, I think discipline is, is really important there to, to find how it works for you and then tailor your approach to that.

[00:37:10] Lachlan: Yeah. I like what you said there because That is the most important thing.

[00:37:13] It’s like the better you understand yourself and what your preferences are, what works best for you, the faster you can get to results. But I believe anyone can be a morning person. But if you just like held the belief for the last two decades, you’re not a morning person and forcing yourself up, it’s kind of like an uphill battle.

[00:37:28] You know, if you do prefer training at nights, don’t feel like the only way to be successful is to train in the mornings. If you’re better training at night, train at night, and then maybe you shift to a but yeah, go with what works best for you. And what,

[00:37:40] Speaker 4: yeah.

[00:37:41] Lachlan: You prefer like I prefer training at like either 11 o’clock or 2pm.

[00:37:45] Those are just the best times for me. And, um, you know, trying to be that 5am, 6am person, it’s just not going to work for me, but it

[00:37:52] Speaker 4: works

[00:37:52] Lachlan: for a lot of people. So yeah, I think understanding yourself, what you prefer is, is, is really a big part of this.

[00:37:57] Rob: Yeah, definitely. And again, if we want longevity and consistency.

[00:38:01] Uh, the best way to do that is to fit it around your schedule and, and when you feel at your peak, uh, rather than trying to fit a square peg in a round hole, it’s not going to work long term.

[00:38:11] Lachlan: Yeah. It’s just, especially nowadays, everything’s so performative. We look to our influences and our fit people in our lives and the successful people.

[00:38:20] We just try and emulate what they do as there’s like nothing wrong with a bit of trial and error phase, but just because this guy does it. Doesn’t mean it’s going to be the best thing for you. I mean, that’s the most, that’s like the cognitive dissonance we have sometimes. It’s like, we’re just trying and trying and trying because this Navy SEAL did that.

[00:38:35] Like that’s the key because if I don’t get up at 4am every day, like I’ve lost the morning. It’s like,

[00:38:40] Speaker 4: yeah,

[00:38:40] Lachlan: that works for him. It also works for a lot of other people. It might not work for you.

[00:38:44] Rob: Yeah,

[00:38:44] Lachlan: exactly.

[00:38:45] Rob: Yeah, totally. Um, I imagine, Lachie, based on our conversation that we’ve probably kicked a few more people over the line of like, okay, I’m I want to try this gym thing.

[00:38:54] I want to give this a little bit of a go. I’m looking now forward down the track, sort of 6 months, 12 months. Um, they’ve made those early gains. They’ve, they’ve, they’re doing everything right, but they get to that point where they might start to plateau and they think maybe I just need to spend longer in the gym or maybe I need to work harder.

[00:39:10] Uh, How, uh, real is the problem of overtraining and how do you combat it?

[00:39:16] Lachlan: Um, yeah, so overtraining is pretty much, I would say like none of my clients are ever at risk of overtraining. So like symptoms of overtraining, if someone’s like, no, no, I’ve definitely overtrained before and I know what it’s like, I would say if you have these symptoms.

[00:39:32] Then you’ve overtrained. Uh, the first one is that you get sick very easily. So like, um, your immune systems are constantly suppressed. Uh, the second one is what we call wide, but tired, sorry, tired, but wide. So it’s like when you’re exhausted, I just can’t wait to go to bed. Like I can barely keep my eyes open.

[00:39:49] The second you get the pillow, it’s like, You’re awake, you can’t sleep, so it’s like a massive dysregulation in your nervous system and hormone imbalance. Uh, the third thing is like you get injured or you have injuries that can’t heal. There’s like constant injuries that just aren’t getting better and you’re getting more injuries.

[00:40:06] Um, the fourth is you’re getting weaker. So you’re going into the gym, you’re trying to push and like you’re actually seeing like a regression in all the movements. It’s normal to like get a little bit of plateau and to go back and forth sometimes, but if you notice every lift is getting worse, And that’s a, that’s a sure sign.

[00:40:24] And then the last thing is, um, is reflux. If like you’re eating the normal foods that you eat and you experience experiencing reflux, then you’ve overtrained as well. Your body’s too acidic and like you’ll find when you’ve had this before you eat foods, it just feels like you’re a constant heartburn. So yeah, if you’ve got probably two, three more of those symptoms, then You’re hitting overtraining and that’s very, very hard to do.

[00:40:47] Basically, the only times you would set yourself up for overtraining if you would train like because if you’re, if you’re recovering well, basically the overtraining is when your recovery doesn’t match your training volume. Um, and so if you like sleeping pretty well and you eat pretty well for most people, you’d probably need to be doing like 10 to 15 hours of training a week hard.

[00:41:10] No, no one’s getting even close to that. Um, so if you’re on three hours of training a week, most people, 2 to 3 hours and you’re getting some of these symptoms, It’s very likely like you’re not sleeping at all or sleeping very poorly. You’re drinking too much alcohol. You don’t get enough water. The nutrition is wrong.

[00:41:26] So all those aspects of recovery, uh, you’re, you’re not doing well. And yeah, when you hit a plateau, the default should not be, I need to train more. It should be looking at other areas that you can improve. Can I get a better program? Can I get a better coach? Can I consult with someone to like evaluate what I’m doing to get better?

[00:41:44] It’s very rarely like, I’m, I’m, I’m, I’m, I’m, I’m, I’m need to train more and I don’t want to risk over training. That’s like a pretty unlikely scenario.

[00:41:52] Rob: Yeah. Okay, cool. Uh, lucky. This has been a great conversation. What’s one question that I didn’t ask you today that maybe you’d hoped I would have. And if I had asked it, how would you have answered?

[00:42:04] Lachlan: Oh, uh, I guess, you know, in the context of leaders, You know, sometimes it’s very easy to be like, Hey, what can I do that I’m not doing to improve? But sometimes the better question is like, what am I doing that I should stop doing that’s going to actually unlock a lot of progress? Um, and the most common answer that I give to people, um, in, in my context, in working with leaders is, uh, alcohol consumption.

[00:42:35] Um, so while actually, and then a part beats that would be caffeine consumption. So, uh, alcohol is yes. It’s pretty bad, you know, like it’s, it’s good in some contexts, in social contexts and in like very small doses and in moderation and like, you know, for, for special occasions, but really anything more than like, you know, two to three drinks a week, which is pretty low.

[00:43:01] Most people would take that box pretty easily, pretty detrimental to our health long term. Um, and so really addressing that, I mean, it affects sleep, it affects recovery, it affects your liver health, your heart health. increases your risk of cancer. It has a pretty, pretty detrimental effect. No matter how much training or how healthy you are, there’s not really a good case for drink drinking more than two, three drinks a week.

[00:43:25] And even that is considered a lot in the research. Um, so cutting, finding ways to cut back on alcohol. Is like a bit of a 20. Sometimes I, you know, we, the coaching team and us laugh is we just think, Hey, if this person just cut out alcohol, they would just, they wouldn’t even have to come to the gym. Don’t be making so much progress.

[00:43:42] You know, like it’s holding that many people back. It’s crushing their health that much. And then, yeah, I guess the other silent killer is caffeine as well. People are just like massively over consuming caffeine, especially people. that work with numbers every day and do long hours at the desk. Um, you know, caffeine is a great stimulant to focus our mind and to keep us alert, uh, improve our mood, but it’s a very delicate balance between like the right amount and too much.

[00:44:09] I mean, obviously no, no caffeine is, that’s never an issue. Um, and going over that looks like. Um, more than so that the half life of caffeine is eight hours, which means that when you consume one cup of coffee, say it’s 100 milligrams of caffeine, eight hours after you consume it, you’ve got 50 milligrams left in the system the next eight hours.

[00:44:33] Then you’ve got 25. So it hard again. So in the period of like 16 hours, you still have a quarter of that cup of coffee in your system. Now, any amount of caffeine in the body affects sleep. The sleep has four stages. Stage 1, 2, 3, 4. Caffeine disrupts and blocks stages 3 and 4. Stages 3 and 4 are essential for um, emotional regulation, for memory consolidation, for tissue repair, for fat loss, basically everything good that we want.

[00:45:02] Um, at stage 2, stage 1, you’re in like a nap. You’re like tired and conscious of what’s going on, like starting to drift away. But if, you know, someone makes a noise or someone says something to you, you’ll wake up at stage two. You’re completely unconscious. So caffeine doesn’t really affect stage two. So what people think when they drink coffee before they go to bed or they drink caffeine in the afternoons or whatever they go, coffee doesn’t affect my sleep.

[00:45:24] I sleep fine. I sleep through the whole night. You’re completely unconscious at stage two though. So you don’t know if you’ve gone from, you’ve gotten stage three and four. So what happens is people are, uh, Asleep. They’re unconscious, but they’re not getting stages three and four. Now, if they do that over years and years and years again, they get, they don’t get proper emotional regulation.

[00:45:43] Um, they don’t get tissue repair, you know, they don’t get stress relief, they don’t get memory consolidation, they don’t get skill consolidation. So they just basically stop improving as a human being. They get worse over time, and it’s a very gradual process. Um, and so, yeah, I would encourage anyone no tapping an hour after you wake up no more than one or two shots of coffee a day and make sure you cut yourself off 12 10 to 12 hours before you go to bed.

[00:46:08] Rob: Yeah,

[00:46:08] Lachlan: that, that, that makes a significant difference to people’s quality of life.

[00:46:12] Rob: Thank you, Lucky, for, uh, for coming on the show today. Thank you for keeping leaders fit, um, and helping them become the best versions of themselves. If people want to connect more with you or find out more about what you do or, you know, how to join up at Locker Room, how can they do that?

[00:46:26] Lachlan: Yeah, so, um, I’m most active on LinkedIn. So if you want to just add me on LinkedIn, Lachlan Rouston. Um, be pretty easy to find. And then, yeah, if you want to look at the gym, it’s locker and gym. com. But again, yeah, all that stuff’s accessible to my LinkedIn. It’s all linked up and all the websites there. So, yeah, if you just want more health and fitness content, um, yeah, follow me there.

[00:46:46] I’ve also got a free 30 day blueprint for leaders and executives. Like it’s the health blueprint, which is honestly just every single thing I’ve talked about in more detail, uh, as a daily email for the next 30 days. And like, yeah, we put thousands of people through that blueprint and, you know, they all say it’s, it’s really helpful.

[00:47:02] So, um, yeah, again, if you just go on LinkedIn, I’m always posting about it. So you can get that for free.

[00:47:07] Rob: Yeah. Fantastic. Thanks Lockie. I really appreciate it.

[00:47:10] Lachlan: No worries. Thanks for having me on Rob. Appreciate it.